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Post by Richard on Mar 16, 2022 8:12:29 GMT 12
I'm getting multiple crosstalk from other AM stations, only when tuned into any AM station, This has only been a problem since I had my "Mains Switchboard" upgraded which included RCD's and the electrician also changed the Earth stake. This interference is on all my AM radios in my house. I introduced an Isolating transformer to my radios to isolate the mains earth and the interference disappears ! Anyone experienced this before? and what the problem could be ? I did a resistance check with a fluke multimeter between the earth stake and the earth pin and appears to be good continuity. Between the Neutral and Earth on a 3 pin socket, I measure 0.8V AC , If the Neutral is bonded with the Earth at the switchboard, shouldnt there be 0 Volts?
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Post by Admin on Mar 16, 2022 17:29:05 GMT 12
I stand to be corrected, as I understand it, Neutral is lifted from earth after the installation of an RCD, and each RCD has it's own neutral bus bar (after the RCD).
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Post by Peter Walsham on Mar 16, 2022 19:15:26 GMT 12
My 2 Cents worth (as a former contracting electrician): The line (input) side of the neutral terminal of an RCD connects to the main neutral bar. If that particular switchboard is the 'MEN' board, then the neutral bar will be connected to the earth bar via a removable link. As 'Admin' states, the load (output) side of the neutral terminal of the RCD connects to a small dedicated (independent) neutral bar - but only the neutral wires from the sub-circuits that are protected by that particular RCD get connected to that dedicated neutral bar. When that RCD either trips, or is turned off, both the phase & neutral wires of all the sub-circuits connected to that particular RCD are totally isolated from the rest of the switchboard wiring.
Now, Richard, you say that you have been able to measure 0.8Volts between neutral & earth of a power point. What you are probably measuring is the voltage drop across a current carrying neutral wire. What I mean is that there will be another appliance (possibly a fridge or a heat pump, but could be anything else) that is on the same sub circuit as the power point that you measured the voltage across. What I am trying to say is: The phase & neutral wires are the ones carrying the load current. They have resistance, therefore a voltage drop will be developed across each of those wires (very close to a 50/50 shared amount). What (I suspect) you were measuring was this voltage drop across the neutral wire, as the earth wire (normally) carries no current, there will be no voltage drop across the earth wire, unless a 'fault to earth' occurs. In 'bygone days' we used to install a MEN link at every switchboard in an installation, but this created a problem of the earth lead (between switchboards) always carrying a share of the load current. These days, only one switchboard per installation is to have a 'MEN' link fitted.
Back to Richard's original post regarding modulation troubles (this sounds like 'cross modulation'): I can't help but wonder if the RCD's that have been installed have a half wave power supply (they have internal electronics, therefore need a power supply). I wonder if you have a freestanding range (stove) that has a power point fitted. If so, then plug a radio in to that power point, and turn off all of the newly installed RCD's, and note the effect on the radio. I suspect the problems might stop. This doesn't solve your problem, but might isolate what might be causing it. As RCD's can be wired 'either way around' (meaning the line in could be either at the top or the bottom of the RCD), therefore the RCD's power supply might be still 'alive' even when the RCD is switched off. However, it's worth a try to see what happens anyway. Some RCS's I've seen have one 'leg' of their electronics connected to one 'input' terminal, and the other 'leg' of their electronics connected to the diagonally opposite 'output' terminal. This means that the internal electronics are completely disconnected from drawing any current if the RCD is turned off.
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Post by Richard on Mar 17, 2022 7:55:30 GMT 12
Thanks Peter, I did as you mentioned and connected a radio to the stove outlet and switched off all the RCD's on the switchboard, the crosstalk disappeared, so it appears to be caused by the RCD's ! what can I do about this ? not much I suspect ?
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Post by Peter Walsham on Mar 17, 2022 8:07:39 GMT 12
Good morning Richard
That's great to hear! Possibly the next thing you could try doing is to see if there's one particular RCD that's causing the problem. What I would do next is to leave a radio plugged in to the stove, and turn the RCD's off, one at a time, and note if they all contribute to the problem, or if it's just one. If 'we' prove it's an RCD that's causing the interference, then substitution with a different brand might be a solution - your sparky just might be able to credit you for the ones he installed, rather than having you pay twice.
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Post by Richard on Mar 17, 2022 8:27:37 GMT 12
Thanks Peter, all of the RCD's are causing the problem. I'll get the electricians in at some point. Thanks again for your expertise.
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Steve
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Post by Steve on Mar 17, 2022 8:49:29 GMT 12
Thats a bummer - as if we didn't have enough modern interference issues to deal with when playing with valve radios... I was thinking of upgrading my c.1976 switchboard... now I'm thinking its just fine the way it is.
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Post by Peter Walsham on Mar 17, 2022 9:40:13 GMT 12
Good morning Steve
I have left the wiring alone in my 1980's house as well. It has the original switchboard with NZI circuit breakers & some porcelain fuses - nothing electronic. A few years ago I replaced all of the filament lamps with LED lamps as a temporary measure before I embarked on major renovations (which still have not begun anyway), which I planned to include the fitting of many LED downlights. However, the next Saturday night, while trying to listen to either 'Jukebox' or 'Shuffle' on AM radio, I found the broadcast swamped by modulation hum. It didn't take long to dawn on me that it was the switch mode power supplies in the LED lamps causing the problem. Fitting the downlights would have necessitated the need to fit RCD's on the switchboard as well. Not only that, but my Wi-Fi modem & ONT box power supply, shaver charger & phone charger & laptop all create merry hell with EMF/modulation hum. I am also pretty sure that the smart meter on the meter board also generates a little RF interference. Grrrr!!! Might be a great time to buy a shack in the middle of nowhere, and go solely on DC battery power - no inverters of any sort!
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Post by Richard on Mar 17, 2022 10:00:57 GMT 12
The isolating transformer in circuit works for now.
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Post by Peter Walsham on Mar 17, 2022 10:44:32 GMT 12
You could also try an in-line EMI RF filter - Jaycar, Cat. No: MS-4000, MS-4001, or MS-4003. All of these will require some connection 'creativity' to fit a 3 pin plug & cord connector to them, but they may provide a relatively simple solution. Might be worth a try?
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Post by Richard on Mar 17, 2022 11:19:32 GMT 12
Thanks Peter, I'll give it a try
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Steve
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Posts: 727
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Post by Steve on Mar 17, 2022 13:19:23 GMT 12
So what happens (noise-wise) if you drive a stake for an RF earth and hook that up while on an isolation transformer?
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Steve
Society Members
vintageradio.co.nz
Posts: 727
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Post by Steve on Mar 17, 2022 22:20:34 GMT 12
I found the (ir)relevant regs
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Post by Richard on Mar 18, 2022 14:07:14 GMT 12
Thanks Steve, I will try that when time permits and I can find a suitable stake, I'll update this post when I get round to it.
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Post by Peter Walsham on Mar 18, 2022 16:03:20 GMT 12
Even driving a galvanised warratah fence post in will do. They are readily available from Bunnings & Mitre10
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