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Post by fredlook on Dec 10, 2020 9:16:42 GMT 12
Hi i have just acquired this lovely PYE pz101 but the antenna coil is munted (looks like the antenna wire was wrapped around and the yanked)
I cannot get a circuit for this radio but it is an Akrad same era and valve lineup as the clipper for which i do have a circuit ECH42 being the associated valve
It looks like a "no 1638".
Two questions where the heck might i obtain such a thing.?
what gear would i need to get it aligned ?
I have had quite a lot to do with these old radios over the years but never really attempted (or had the gear to ) alignment or RF tuning.
Thanks Fred
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Post by dada on Dec 10, 2020 9:32:32 GMT 12
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Post by fredlook on Dec 10, 2020 9:57:16 GMT 12
Thank you very much!
so its a M. W. Aerial coil ref: MW 7 A No: 7802 5 7
what instruments would i need to tune one of these up assuming I can get one?
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Post by fredlook on Dec 10, 2020 16:42:53 GMT 12
hmmmm would appear i need a signal generator and a scope
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Post by elorens on Dec 10, 2020 19:57:13 GMT 12
Are you sure it needs to be realigned? Does it work at the moment? Probably 90% of faults can be fixed using just a multimeter and don’t involve realignment.
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Post by Richard on Dec 12, 2020 6:23:34 GMT 12
Is there anyway to repair the existing antenna coil? This outfit: www.tubesandmore.com/ (Antique Electronic Supply) used to sell universal Antenna coils, but they don't seem to have them at the moment, keep an eye on their website. If the only problem with your radio is a faulty Antenna coil, then you could get away without needing a signal generator.
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Post by fredlook on Dec 12, 2020 7:58:40 GMT 12
well the coil support was sheared off in the middle and one of the windings (the antenna side ) had shot across the chassis unwinding wire from bot ends as it went . I actually did sort of get all the wire back on and bogged the whole mess together with hot glue. there is some faint signal but i cont think the two coils are coupled sufficiently now.
putting together a signal generator now with a five dollar arduino module AD9833 0 to 12 mhz sine square or sawtooth
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Steve
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Post by Steve on Dec 13, 2020 22:14:59 GMT 12
Have you tried just peaking the ant trimmer (C3)? Unless the two coils have 'slid' from their original locations on the former then they should be fine - what you're describing with low signal sounds like an open primary or secondary on that coil might be the problem - did you measure their resistances? Sorry if you have, I'm not trying to state the obvious, I'm just thinking out loud. In terms of alignment - you can tweak it by ear and get 95% of the way there unless its been very messed with. If the dial pointer still is pretty close to the right frequencies at either end then I'd suspect just tweaking C3 for maximum volume on a station should be all it needs. Having said all that, if you want to learn to do a proper alignment then the first thing to do is finish your sig gen, set it to 470kc/s and feed that via a 0.1uF cap to the spot mentioned on page one of the service docs (the grid (pin 6) of the ECH42). Normally you will want the minimum signal level you can just hear over the background noise as this stops the AVC kicking in - although I've never really found that to be much of a problem in terms of getting the IF's peaked. Be careful with those iron dust cores - if they are too stiff (often they either have a strip of rubber jammed in the thread to stop them turning on their own - or wax - or both) its easy to crack them, at which point they can be impossible to tune. Also make sure the needle is in the right spot on the dial string to cover the dial properly - there should be a spot on the right hand end of the dial which the pointer should be on when the gang is fully meshed (according to the notes section on page 2 of the service info). Now things get tricky because I am pretty sure the PZ101 service info relating to alignment of the dial is wrong (someone else will hopefully jump in and confirm this, and double check my working below), it is for a different model, a multiband radio - PZ95TG if I'm not mistaken. An olden-days case of a copy-paste error while putting the service info together. Step 2 should probably be: Set the dial to 600, feed a 600kc/s signal in the aerial via the 0.1uF cap and tweak the iron dust core L3 for max. And step 3 should be something like: Set the dial to 1500kc/s and feed a 1500kc/s signal in the aerial via the 0.1uF cap and tune C10 for maximum volume Step 4 is correct, repeat 2 and 3 until the pointer is bang on at each end. Its then that you suddenly realise that you actually want to listen to a station at 1598kc/s (The Coast here in Chch) and you then go and undo all that work so the needle will go high enough to tune it in - I always work on the principle that I want my radios to play the stations I can get and the actual frequency alignment of the dial is not as important as that... so I tend to just earball the upper end of the dial to ensure that station just squeaks in. This might not be a problem for you where you are. Oh - and step 5 is missing - the important one here. Once all this is done, set it up with the aerial you intend to use and tune C3 for max volume - thats the aerial coil being peaked and is the final step. If its still weak then check your valves - it could be something simple like a near-dead valve pulling the performance down. And all this assumes you've recapped it and checked voltages etc? Hopefully that helps (and hopefully its correct - or at least more correct than Pye got it )
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Steve
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Post by Steve on Dec 13, 2020 22:19:52 GMT 12
Oh, one more tip from someone who's been there - dripped or dipped candle wax or beeswax will hold fine wires nicely and the wax is very easy to re-melt or undo - but hot melt glue is pretty much permanent on those coils - it will never come off so if you want to re-work it you can't. Although it sounds like your coil suffered a pretty catastrophic failure so it might not matter. If its still got good continuity on the primary and secondary then its probably ok for now.
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Post by fredlook on Dec 14, 2020 18:28:42 GMT 12
Thanks Steve yeah i already figured out that hot glue was a one way Journey (after i did it!)
kinda had no choice as the thing was actually broken in two! but the wax is good advice.
It seems that both coils do still have continuity so maybe despite all the coil may not be the cause of the low signal
gonna do the full check all voltages and swap out valves thing now.
thanks for the advice!
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Post by fredlook on Dec 14, 2020 18:39:05 GMT 12
oh and yes it was impossible to determine what the position of the two coils relative to each other as the former had disintegrated around the break and the antenna coil was flailing about . which raises the question , are these coils intended to be coupled? is that the main signal path? or is C1 the signal path?
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Steve
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PYE pz101
Dec 15, 2020 9:21:28 GMT 12
via mobile
Post by Steve on Dec 15, 2020 9:21:28 GMT 12
Yes the distance between the primary and secondary on the former is part of the overall tuning arrangement. I'm not sure of the exact purpose of the 30pF capacitor, it could be forming a high pass pi filter with the aerial coil to keep low frequency noise out of the rf stages? Someone will know.
In experiments I did with crystal set circuits a few years back I found I could change the tuned frequency of the set by moving the aerial winding on a ferrite rod in relation to the secondary circuit winding, and by changing that distance then re-tuning with the tuning gang over and over I could find a sweet spot where maximum signal was.
I would think most aerial coils from most similar era radios with similar set ups (same value of capacitance in the tuning gang, no fancy internal aerial arrangement etc) would be suitable near-enough replacements. It might be worth looking for one just to try. I'll see what I have here.
Cheers, Steve
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Post by fredlook on Dec 18, 2020 17:33:57 GMT 12
got the AD9833, a few lines of code and i have 700khz modulated with 500hz square wave and can receive that OK so it works my toy scope only takes me to around 40 khz but it would seem that using a modulated signal i should still be able to trace and peak it thru
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